Leeds Free Legal Representation is a charity providing free legal advice and representation to any who live and work in Yorkshire. Their areas of expertise are Employment Law and Social Security Claims. It was set up in 2019 by postgraduate law students.

The Dost project spoke with one of the charity’s volunteers Mahdev Singh Sachdev. Originally from Malaysia, Mahdev graduated from the University of Leeds with a First Class Law degree in 2019. Subsequently, he completed the Bar Professional Training Course. He has gained legal experience in Malaysia and the United Kingdom. Dealing with legal problems can be exhausting and scary. Mahdev believes that access to justice is a right and not only an option for the wealthy. He is committed to working alongside clients to make this a reality.

To contact the charity for support, please click: https://www.lflr.co.uk/contact

Thanks for joining us today Mahdev. Let’s start with finding out what the reason was behind a charity like LFLR starting up?

In 1949, the Law Society reported 85% of people living in the UK were eligible for legal aid, which comprises free legal advice and if matters went to court they would be represented for free. In 2020 that number came down to 25%. The reason for that I think is one particular legislation – the Legal Aid, Sentencing and Punishment of Offenders Act 2012. Its purpose was to reduce public spending on legal aid. It achieved that purpose not by making legal aid more accessible or dealing with systemic issues but simply by taking money out of the public funding. People simply could not get legal aid. Where LFLR comes in is providing free legal assistance with employment disputes and social security claims.

How important is making legal aid accessible for all?

In employment law we have almost zero legal aid available. That means people have 2 options: either pay for private services which are expensive or represent themselves. The latter is a devastating experience, especially when trying to get their heads around the law. The alternative is pro-bono charities like ours. We are volunteers who advise our clients from start to finish. From the initial advice to collecting the evidence to finally representing them at, say, the employment tribunal.

Clients may come in who have experienced discrimination in employment due to their race, or gender or similar – made to work overtime without pay, or made redundant or unfairly dismissed. Our job is to assist the client through the process from initial assessment, to gathering evidence, to representing them at the tribunal.

Can you give us an example of a success story with LFLR?

I assisted on a claim where someone had been unfairly dismissed. Aside from the main issue of the redundancy, we also were successful in proving in front of the tribunal that the employer did not follow the right procedure. That’s important as well. Some of my other cases have been settled before going to the tribunal stage. We will often try and mediate a settlement before it reaches the tribunal. The overall benchmark for success isn’t always that we go to a tribunal. Rather it is making sure the client feels at ease and that they feel happy with the outcome.

What are some of the barriers facing ethnic minorities when accessing legal help?

If we look at areas ethnic minorities in the Yorkshire region may not always live in the most affluent areas which means they are more likely to be financially stressed out and not have as many resources. Reports have shown that because of the pandemic as well members of the BAME community are more likely to be financially stressed. Which means when they face a problem at work, where they may have been discriminated against, or where they’ve been made redundant, they’re not going to have that financial space to pay for a lawyer and enforce their rights at a tribunal.

In an employment setting specifically among clients from the BAME communities there’s this theme of not wanting to rock the boat. You want to just focus on work. This may be more true of first or second generation immigrants that come to the UK – maybe not so much for younger generations who may feel a lot more comfortable asserting their rights. The danger of wanting to keep your head down at work is that the problems accumulate and then there’s a tipping point. Then it might be too late to get legal advice. Within an employment tribunal you have a three-month time limit to bring a claim either through the Employment Rights Act 1996 or the Equality Act 2010. If the problems accumulate because people are financially stressed and because they don’t want to rock the boat, it will be difficult to bring all the claims forward due to the time limits. And this can disproportionately affect members of the BAME community.

To quote Barbara Mills, one of 5 black barrister QCs in the UK, “you can’t have a system where people think, ‘the person who will represent me has no idea about my life, my culture, my heritage, what makes me me. The person going to make a life-altering decision has no idea who I am and that doesn’t instill confidence’.

The legal system is a white system, filled with mostly white legal professionals, Judges are mostly white, court staff are mostly white. So a sense of confidence in the system is missing which gets compounded by the other factors.

What are some of the barriers you’ve faced as a lawyer from an ethnic minority in the UK?

I’m originally from Malaysia. I spent two years in Leeds completing my law degree and Bar Course. For sure I faced some barriers particularly around nationality and being from overseas. With the intense competition for places there is a perception amongst some here that those from abroad will simply go back home after getting their degrees. The narrative of ‘go back to where you came from’ does come up – in a twisted way – no one says it explicitly. But there is always someone asking ‘so when are you going back to…?’ There’s a way the suggestion is made which becomes the issue.

When you become a barrister you join a professional association which can help you with things like professional development and networking. They also offer scholarships for the bar course. When you apply, there is a 20-minute interview. In my case, 5 of those 20 minutes were spent talking about my visa status. That really put me off because I know those from the UK had 5 more minutes to talk about a deserving candidate of that scholarship. So something that really should have been an administrative matter was brought into a discussion about merit. That made me consider my own belonging in my profession.

And also, mentorship and having people from similar backgrounds in the profession is really important to persuade younger people that they have a chance.

What would your advice be to people from BAME backgrounds considering a career in law?

First is you really need to figure out financially how it’s going to work out. I was very privileged to have had support from family. Because a lot of the initial experience that you need for your legal CV will be either unpaid or very poorly paid. There has been an increase in funding from barristers chambers to cover things like travel costs for work experience. For BAME communities, it’s about recognising that you are needed in the profession. Going back to the quote from Barbara Mills, a lot of people of colour need to get into the profession. It gives the clients more confidence and reassurance that the person representing me knows what it feels like to not fit within the system. For example, I am currently assisting someone on a case of race discrimination. And the client has said to me a few times “you know what it’s like” working in this environment. For them to have the confidence to say that meant they didn’t have to justify or explain their experiences to me. It also meant that because I understand it, I can think about how I want to pitch this case. What are the hidden things and nuances that someone without that lived experience may not pick up. Those things feel more intuitive to me and I can communicate that to the tribunal. That’s the reason why people of colour need to be in the profession. It’s not about your law degree, it’s about the lived experience that will help them feel confident in your assistance.

And finally, it’s about finding mentors. The right mentorship won’t only give you assurance about your journey but will also open doors for you.