Racism continues to dominate much of the sporting and national consciousness in the UK and abroad. Smile Health’s BAME Wellbeing Coordinator Bibhash Dash chatted with Active Humber CEO David Gent about what good allyship entails and how the conversation about anti-racism should be conducted on a wider level.

Bibhash Dash: Thank you very much David, CEO of Active Humber, thank you very much for joining us this afternoon. It’s a real pleasure and I know that you are a wonderful friend of our Dost project. It’s really great to have you on board.

I know that what we’re about to discuss is something incredibly important, incredibly topical. It’s always been relevant but more so in these last few years and we can go back to the events of last year, with the amount of awareness that has been raised since then due to Black Lives Matter and so forth. Sometimes what perhaps gets left out, is the concept of ‘allyship’. I know you’ve been an advocate of it and continue to do so. So what does ‘allyship’ mean to you.

David Gent: I think in the context of the last two years, it’s so important. Because I am who I am. And I can do very little to change that. but i am, at the end of the day, just one of the many people that lives in this country. And the way that I would wish to be treated, the way that I would wish to be respected, that to me is so important.  That is the way that we deal with each other. Why should you ever go through life fearing or something worrying you, that for others just doesn’t play a part in their life. I love the phrase of ‘go and walk in somebody else’s shoes’. It fundamentally changes the way you think about the world in a much more positive way and you can’t ever understand what it means to live somebody else’s life but yo ucan be empathetic towards that. You can take the time to realise when it’s good to just be quiet and listen and let that person tell their story. don’t make any judgement, just listen. and then there’s other times if you’re asked to give your opinion and to help that person through.

BD: You’ve said about the times that it’s better to stay silent and let people talk. But equally when they see something happening which is not right, stand up and say something, stand up and do something, and that also gets missed out a lot of the times. People think “it doesn’t affect me, why should I care”.

DG: I think that’s so important that those microaggressions which, in the past would have been tolerated, as much as it is difficult, identify it and call it out there and then. For people like me this is so important because all those little microaggressions add up and then it becomes the norm. So to me it is vital that we all say something. There are times that we are going to say the wrong word and that’s going to offend somebody. but the more important thing is you do say something when you see it, and you do intervene at that time. And don’t get worried if your terminology is a bit clumsy or a bit awkward. it’s much more important that you said, “that’s wrong”.

BD: When we bring it back to sport again and we see the news about the taking of the knee (before sporting events), something that’s been going on more prominently since 2016 when Colin Kaepernick took the knee to the US national anthem. But there’s also references to Martin Luther King Jr taking the knee. When we see the opposition, for example during the European Championships, the booing, how much damage does that do to the awareness that’s being raised?

DG: Untold damage. I think it’s so brilliant that the England footballers have done this, that they’ve stuck with it despite people saying “it’s irrelevant”. It’s not at all irrelevant. They are basically saying, at the beginning of every game, that that type of behaviour totally and utterly will not be accepted. And unfortunately, we live in a world where we’re going to have to keep reminding ourselves before every single game, and that has to be done because there is a great depth to all of this. It’s also to me a a lack of respect similar to some booing the national anthems (of other countries). We would be offended if other people did that to the British national anthem, so why do we do it for other countries. Because it’s totally disrespectful and it’s, in my opinion, based on racism. It’s just intolerable. I hope that in the Premier League they keep (the knee) going because we have a long way to go before we can confidently say that we are much more equal society.

BD: Sport can be used as propaganda by governments and nobody, or very few people ever say anything. But if you wear something on your arm in support of something, suddenly UEFA or FIFA can clamp down really hard on that. Sometimes there’s a hypocrisy to it. I think we are free enough to use that word publicly because we are fighting for that change. I’m really thankful for your time today and I wanted to see if you had any parting message of hope from sport for those that are trying to combat racism and raise awareness.

DG: Our vision and mission is that we want everybody in the Humber to be physically active. The reality of the situation is that it’s not going to be the case today. And one of them is the racism they face. We want to work as hard as we can to create a Humber that is physically active every day that we can enjoy sport and the power of physical activity. And we all have to be physically active to enjoy good health. To me, whichever community you are in, wherever you are in the Humber, this is about using the power of sport to put forward that message, have those difficult conversations about allyship, to have those conversations with people like me that have to do a lot more and come out of the stands and do something. But I think it’s ultimately about celebrating how we can all play together and enjoy playing together in a really positive way.